Why does my dog nudge my new puppy

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The feeling of a nudging pooch sure is cute. However, it's important to remember that your dog's goal with the action may not be to be adorable, but rather to express a message to you -- or to another dog. Nudging can indicate everything from submission to a simple request.

If your dog encounters another canine and nudges his muzzle -- the mouth and nose region -- using his nose, then he may be attempting to express subordinate status. Your pooch doesn't feel like a big shot around this other dog and is trying to make sure the other canine knows it. Dogs often engage in this submissive body language as a way of keeping peace and avoiding disputes. They also sometimes push their tongues out rapidly as they nudge muzzles, as well -- another technique for showing submission.

Dogs occasionally nuzzle others -- whether human or canine -- as a way of greeting them. If you were in your backyard doing yard work for hours, your dog may nudge you once you finally get back in as if to say "I see that you're back. Good to see you."

Your sneaky little fluffball may occasionally employ nudging to get something he wants. If you're sitting on your sofa catching up on the evening news only to feel your pet's furry face against yours, he may just be asking you for something, albeit not so discreetly. Perhaps he wants some of those delicious beef treats you brought out for him yesterday. Maybe he needs to go outside. He may even just want a little bit of your valuable attention.

Nudging often signifies submissiveness, but it also sometimes points to its polar opposite -- and that's dominance. If your dog nudges you often, so much that it seems excessive and kind of like a tool to get what he wants from you, whenever he wants it, he may just feel dominant over you -- uh oh. Other common signs of canine dominance are immoderate barking, obstructing your path every time you try to move, food guarding and the mounting of animals or human beings.

Hi all, I've just got a puppy (Thursday) and my older dog seems to be generally getting along OK with him (got a few growling sessions such as when he jumps on him or tries to stick his head in the water when the older one is drinking) but when they're playing they paly really nicely. Just one thing that I'm not sure is good or bad?! When they both get really playful puppy rolls over and submits and lies down. Then, Dennis starts nudging him quite hard as if trying to make him move when he doesn't want to. Do I leave them to it (i'm obviously supervising and he's in his cage when i'm not there) or should I stop him nudging him so hard? I'll try and get a video of him doing it but in the meantime would really appreciate some advice. Thanks

Emma

I got him nudging on video

Before this they had been playing and when i took it i thought that was still the case. However watching this now it doesn't look like the case. What do you think please?!

I think the old dog has been confronted with a new situation and is unsure what to do. I would separate them when you aren`t able to supervise them - if only to protect the old dog from those needle-sharp puppy teeth!

at one point in your video it looked like your rottie was playing as he had a play stance so its of hard to say.i use to have a rottie and sometimes they dont know their own strength,when we got a new pup i noticed my rottie use to nudge the pup but it was in a different way it was when the pup was doing something he shouldnt and was kind of rounding him to keep him out of trouble or if i wanted the pup to go outside to urinate the rottie would nudge him in the right direction actually the rottie was a big help in looking after the pup and they became the best of friends. im sure you dont need anyone saying just keep an eye on them.by the way they are both adorable.

Thanks guys, it is a strange situation. Dennis (rottie) starts out playing and gets excited which is when he starts chasing Bill (puppy). Then when Bill stops he gets a firm nudge. Hubby thinks Dennis is trying to get Bill running again but I think Bill as a bit scared by that point. I never know whether to step in at that point or not. I generally get on the floor with them and then puppy can hide under my legs or in my lap but you just don't know whether your interfering do you?! Obviously at this stage i'm not leaving them alone together. Bill has a cage in the hall for when we're not here.

Em

Hi, It could be that Dennis is playing as normal but because of his huge size and weightin comparison to thepups, he dones't knwo his own strength. if he has nudged them a litrtel hard this may make the pups roll over onto their back but at the same time they're doing this of their own accord. They're not being forced to "submit" to Dennis.

I don't thinkl youhave any real problems. Just make sure the pups are crated when you can't supervise them and be ready to step in just before one or both of them get squished!

Laura xx

Looks very much like play to me. Your Rotty is nudging to encourage play then he invites play. At which point the puppy has already decided it's doesn't want to play and tries to hide near your feet. Then your Rotty tries again at which point I hear you say play nice.

its a normal behaviour in the breed, my lot nudge things, more so when they are unsure what else to do with it, its not aggression, but that said the pup does look a tad fazed by being nudged, so I would continue giving the rott a vocal command to stop the behaviour, or..........redirect the play to a toy, or similar,

Im sure you will find this will sort itself out in a few weeks when the younger pup is faster on its paws, lol

Thanks Shona,
I know Dennis generally likes to play rough and he seems to be trying so hard to be gentle around Bill. I bought them a new toy last night (a rope with a little ball at each end) and they played really nice with it for ages (until puppy got tired and went to sleep and Dennis carried on playing with hubby - who now has a black eye as he got smacked in the face with it

Em xx

how long have you had the pup?

Page 2

Question - or a rant

TBH I am actually thinking about leaving the class for a few months as I dont think they are doing any good for either of my dogs

Sorry for the rant, I am just so disheartened tonight. Made to feel like an irrisponable owner

That's horrible that you have to go through that. I agree with you that you shouldn't let her off lead if you don't feel ready. I had problems at agility too a while back, Ollie's recall was poor but they still made me let him off. It was getting too tense and so I left.

It's completely up to you whether you leave or not, but the trainers don't seem very nice and they don't seem to be that helpful either.

your only fault is that you listened to what the told you, you should have never have let her off in a situation like that. This is YOUR dog, it dosent matter to the trainer if she has a set back, but it sure matters to you. Dont feel bullied by trainers.

TBH i dont think agility is the place for very reactive dogs, theres always alot of hypey dogs barking etc

Poor Mia - all she seems to be learning is that she should run up and bark at other noisy dogs! This is one of the major problems (for owners of reactive dogs) with 'roll on/roll off' classes where new people join after a few weeks. Why not try and find a club that run courses - once she is used to the dogs you know there will be no new ones coming in, and Mia will be happier. I groan when I hear trainers over ruling an owners opinion. Sometimes, they are right and the owner needs to have a little bit more confidence in their dog, but it is not for them (the trainer) to insist. It is your dog - not theirs - who is learning/honing unwanted behaviour, and leaving you feeling like poo at the end of it! There is no time scale for a reactive dog not to be reactive. What a ridiculous thing for her to say - I have Staffies and (as old as they are) if another, unknown, Staffie comes into their face they will react. That is not because I am a bad owner, or they are bad dogs - it is because that is how they are! Find a nice, quiet (mostly), positive training, plenty of space club for you and Mia to attend - it will help her get her confidence back, and perhaps realise that she is able to cope with other dogs around - that might be another agility club, or something else that is fun.

Also, try and make sure that you are not adding to her stress when she is getting worked up about other dogs. Work on 'attention/look' exercises and make it really worth her while to ignore other dogs if she possibly can.

Agree with all the above but it is hard sometimes to stand your ground. Agility isn't good for reactive dogs until they have learnt to love it so much that they will concentrate on the course and nothing else. Could have been worse---it could have been flyball (G)! At least you have been pushed into a decision, you should enjoy training whatever it is and if you aren't then the dog won't either. Go and find a fun class for her.

rune

I also agree with what's been said. It's such a shame that you've had this really unhelpful experience when you've obviously been working so hard with Mia & making progress. With reactive dogs I always try to find training & rehabilitation exercises that reinforce & reward fairly calm & static behaviours. There are physiological reasons for this too because the more dogs "practice" calm, quiet behaviours with not too much muscle movement, the more the neural pathways associated with those behaviours are reinforced & sensitised, so the more readily they are turned on. This is called "long term potentiation" & is part of the physiology of learning. The upshot is that dogs (& people) are more likely to have a "default" setting of calm, quiet behaviour rather than bouncing, pinging, barking, lunging etc.

I can always remember a very wise & knowledgeable friend saying to me that she never trains any behaviour unless she has trained the "off" switch too

training must be fun, even for dogs with issues, when its not fun, its not working, I think the trainer has let you down, she has taken to many dogs on that have a gobby problem and now finds that she cant cope, so it sounds like shes singled your dog out to be the worst one.....

get a better trainer hun,

It takes as long as it takes. Sounds like the trainer was stressed and over-reacted. Not the way to talk to people. Rise above it or leave.

Hi, Sorry to hear what you've put up with but don't get disheartened. You're not an irresponsible or bad owner at all. You were following advice from a trainer who really should have known better. You know Mia better than anyone. Don't let anyone push you into doing something with your dogs. I know it's easier said than done when it's s "professional" telling you what to do but I think you need to stand your ground. personally think you should leave. It's a shame you're so far away. I'd suggest coming to our agility class. We do have reactive dogs there. They're allowed to sort out their differences (obviosuly in a controlled way wiht the owners consent - nobody tells someone else what to do with their dog) and then we all have a good giggle going round the course. I agree with you too - you can use the saved money to do something else with Mia. Good luck.

Laura xx

I have been going to a dog training class on and off for 4 years now. I recently went back for an 8 week course after a years off because I felt Jed was missing out on his time with me (Flynn was doing gundog, Jessie was doing agility). I tell you something, I wont be going back again in a hurry. It used to be a bit of a circus but this latest batch of newcomers have dogs that are virtually uncontrollable and they have no idea how to get anything out of their dogs. Bear in mind these are dogs that have passed their puppy and intermediate courses and are techinically now in the "advanced" group. There is one man there with a lovely beardie but it's a bit of a handful. His idea of making it do a down is to swipe all 4 feet out from under it so it flips over onto it's back with a thud and then pinning it there. Why the trainers are allowing this to happen is beyond me, they should be interjecting and showing him a better way. They also allow reactive and aggressive dogs off lead who immediately have a pop at the other dogs. There was one woman who used a Pet Corrector without making sure it was ok with everybody else (which to me is manners). Jed is scared of those things and fortunately didnt hear it but if she'd used it again I was going to say something. I know how you feel going to classes that arent doing your dog any favours and the classes arent run that well. I was always being told to raise my voice to my dog even when giving the first command. Why do I have to do that? My dog isnt deaf and yes, if it ignores me then I raise my voice but surely on the first command, I dont have to shout at it??

I wouldnt take it to heart, you know your dog better than anybody else. Try and find another class where they perhaps understand the problems you face a bit better. Finding a good training class is a bit like trying to find a good husband...you have to trawl through the crap ones to find a good one.

Page 3

How worth it do you think they are?
It is not the training side I would be going for (as I plan to train him myself as well as I can

He met a neighbours labradoodle (whos about the size of a horse

So yeah... should I go to training classes for socialisation, or will he be okay being socialised with other dogs when out on walks etc?

You prob can get enough on walks You prob can train at home But a good class is helpful, you get new ideas, you meet new owners, you get extra distractions to train under and you get to play with puppies

I think they are great

I think very. I thought I could keep my labrador well socalized and train by myself. As we visited my sister inaw weekly he would see their dog. Also my sister had a puppy a couple of months younger and my friends would come round with their dogs. We also had foster dogs in that he would play with. So yes he was trained and well socialized with other dogs. But getting him to listern while new dogs were around was just impossible. As soon as they had gone he was back to walking to heal sitting at roads.

Since training classes his approach is totally different, dogs are more accepting of him also. He doesn't lundge to say hello and is much calmer all round. I can walk past dogs and he'll listern. I can now call him while he's playing with his buddies at training and he'll come straight back.

It is awesome and teaches you how to train your dog to be a good companion or whatever you want to do with him. [link removed]

The one thing you get in a class you don't get elsewhere is the puppy learning to stay on task around other dogs.

Another need is time for unstructured play with other puppies. The classes and 4-H our puppies have go to don't include that. Mostly ours get it through family visits, sitting other dogs, and some of the monthly training sessions we attend.

Ive been wondering about this too. I have been doing training with Bobby and he does really well - till he sees a dog and then he behaves like a looney, running round the dogs, barking, jumping at them (not biting fortunately), going into 'play with me' stance with his bum up in the air and just ignores all my calls for him to come.

Only thing that is stopping me taking him to classes is that I can't run/walk quick, and walk with a stick and I just don't want to hold the other people in the class up.

Just be sure to choose one that allows the pups some playtime (supervised). Ours didn't and I wish we had gone elsewhere.

Otherwise some places run specific socialisation classes, but visit first and make sure its not just a free for all

I think there can be a difference in classes between those that are purely for socialisation, & those that are for learning how to train your dog. Sometimes classes will allow a bit of both, i.e. a bit of playtime at the end of the training session. There are pros & cons for both. If it's only socialisation, these classes are usually aimed at quite young puppies that have just had their vaccinations & are learning how to behave around other dogs & the pups have great fun playing. But you won't be taught about how to train your dog. Training classes are generally not socialisation classes. Once the dogs start to realise that it's much more fun to play with other dogs, you'd have a helluva job trying to get their attention & learn anything! Plus you'll be so busy keeping an eye on your dog & keeping him out of mischief, that you'll struggle to hear anything the instructor says. At most training classes, the dog are kept at sufficient distance from each other that they can't play. And sometimes training classes include dogs with behavioural problems that it's not good to expose a puppy to.

Your best bet is to ask around for recommendations from other dog owners, talk to instructors, ask to go & observe their classes & then you can see for yourself. I'm sure you'll find something suitable & it's a great way to meet other dog owners & compare notes ~ much like mother & baby classes I suppose

I believe puppy socialisation classes are a good idea, but it is important to choose a good one which does not get too chaotic. Choose one run by an APDT person. One in my area limits the number of puppies attending at each session wich is good as it allows for a bit of individualised attention. The classes can then lead onto more structured training as your puppy gets older if you want it. I think these organised meetings can be great fun and the pups get to meet all shapes and sizes of dogs, especially on some of the organised walks. Good luck

Ahh - thanks everyone

It would be more the socialisation side of it rather than the training as I am happy to try myself

Page 4

A situation seems to be developing and other than keep my eye on it not sure what to do.. I was wondering what other people thought...... Ailsa my 5 year old GSD bitch loves Sam the Cairn, he is now 11 years old. Apart from telling him' what for' if he attempts to interfere with her food she is wonderful with him. Jake who is coming up for 3 has, at times, got a bit hyper with him but Sam has always ruled the roost and Jake has always deferred to him. Over the last couple of weeks Jake seems to be getting slightly aggressive with Sam. A few times I have heard Sam squeal and found that Jake has had a go at him - tonight Sam walked by Jake whilst he was eating and a small fracas ensued. It has got to the point now that I think Sam is a little scared/wary of Jake and when he came back in this evening Sam didn't want to cross Jake's path although he was laying down. I went to sit with Jake and called Sam over and he came but to be honest with you for the first time ever I wasn't sure what Jake was going to do - he just looked at Sam and I felt quite concerned for the little chap. Sam is losing his sight slightly (due to his age) and I don't know if this is making him more wary of Jake's size and maybe Sam is yapping more at Jake or whether it is Jake instigating something...... I don't want Sam getting hurt nor do I want

to have to segregate Jake and Sam, has anyone got any views of what is going on here? At the risk of being shot down here Jake does not like small furry animals but has always been fine with Sam up until now.

I would say that your older dog Sam sounds like he has been the top dog in your pack,but now he is ageing your younger dog is trying for top position

Yes, it's funny I did wonder about that one. Sam is losing some sight - the vet says it's an age thing and I wondered if Jake is picking up on his weakness. I just hope that it
won't escalate too much......

If this is what's going on it will depend on how quickly Sam is prepared to step down,try and stay calm when you're around them or they will pick up on the fact your stressed .

One thing I didn't mention and I'm not sure whether it reinforces what we have been thinking or not, but also in the last few weeks Jake has been leaping on Ailsa much more than normal. At first I thought it was play fighting, he would grab her ruff etc and they would leap about, but Ailsa clearly didn't like it much and would run to me to escape. I always tried to put a stop to it before it got anywhere as I sometimes had the feeling it might escalate into a fight. Ailsa's hips aren't that great and I don't want him knocking her down or barging her about too much. Do you think this is all to do with the domination thing or is he just turning into a mindless thug? she has always deferred to him giving into him when he has wanted her toys etc.

It does sound as if Jake is beginning to regard Ailsa as "his bitch" and is intent on ensuring that Sam steps down from his position, as he is now into his prime. This may account for his "harrassing" Ailsa. He maybe seems to recognise Sam's approaching age and perceives a weakness (and he is probably spot on). Size is not always and issue in the heirarcy between dogs and as you say Sam did seem to be No.. Do Sam and Ailsa always get on? The fact that Sam is smaller is now a physical problem as he is facing demotion and could get hurt in the process. Hopefully, as Sam seems to be stepping down gracefully and deferring to Jake, Jake won't bully him and will settle down with both your other dogs, allowing peace to reign once more. I don't think there is much alternative but to keep a close eye on them both. Poor old Sam - there's no fun in getting old.
Just another thought, if Ailsa did eventually tell Jake off this might make a difference - it seems to me that it is usually the bitches in a group that rule, so perhaps she will get fed up with him and tell him where to go. Difficult one !!

Sorry - I'm here again, but I tend to think as I go along.
How are you with Jake and his obedience to your commands. You may well have to work on this and make him sure that you are in charge and reinforce Jake's obedience to you. If you are able to reliably stop him in the act and make sure he obeys you every time, then this will probably help, although it won't work if you are not there.

Thanks for the advice. To answer your questions - yes Sam and Ailsa have always and still do get on very well.
Never a cross word between them apart from the food thing, if he attempts to walk by her when she is eating she growls and clears him off - poor little sod he's getting it from all directions

When he is getting larey with Sam a sharp word does stop him and he slinks off.......I have been tempted to let Ailsa and Jake get on with it because she will at times stand her ground and growl at him but if a full blown fight ensued I would be hard pushed to stop it on my own and as I mentioned with Ailsa's dodgy hips I am loathe to see her getting bashed about or knocked over. Rock and hard place springs to mind

I agree with aerolor about the bitch tending to be boss!

To be honest, I'd not really look at this with a view to pack hierarchy - yes, Jake's hormones are raging with his youth, but I think the best bet would be to recognise certain triggers and work with Jake's manners around the other dogs. Even if he is going to be a very strong minded dog, he still has to live peaceably with the others and no one wants any of their dogs to be bullied, which is what it sounds a bit like at the moment. It is difficult with Sam as yes, I agree Jake may well see him as a sort of competitor for the other dog, or it may not be about this at all. What I suspect is happening is that Jake is maturing and finding his feet and realising he can control others using his body language etc, and he's enjoying this. He's learning a lot about getting other dogs to do what he wants.

I'd suggest 2 things

Getting the booklet by Pat McConnell called I believe, "Feeling Outnumbered?" which explains how to organise your dogs to keep the peace in the household

http://www.dogwelfarecampaign.org/if-not-dominance.php

Anyway, that's my take on it

x

Page 5

The title was meant to say puppy, not puppt! Last night Cooper witnessed a squabble between my 2 other dogs over a bone, it obviously scared him as he ran and hid behind my legs. Later that night I gave them all a chewstick and he toyed with it for a little bit then went outside and hid it in some long grass by the shed, he went to get it this morning and it was gone (something else obviously had it- not my dogs) and he was searching for it and I felt bad for him so I took another one out and placed it in the grass so he could find it. Today he has hidden it again outside, then bought it inside and hid it by my feet, then he moved it and hid it underneath the edge of one of the dog beds. Why is he doing this? Is he worried the other 2 are going to take it from him?

Whilst I was typing this he picked it up again and actually crawled under the chair with it to hide it?

Guess that is the simplest explanation. In any multi-dog household a dog is going to want to hold onto his resources (if they are important enough) and if Cooper is not ready to eat his chew, then he is likely to stash it. If he was an 'only' dog he could leave it where it was in the house and be guaranteed (pretty much) that it would be there on his return. Some 'only' dogs also hide their treasure, of course, for (apparently) the sheer joy of digging it up at a later date. I would be careful that Cooper doesn't start guarding his resources - from you or the other dogs. Make sure he has a really good leave-it and don't get in a tussle over it. Be careful that he doesn't learn to fight the other dogs for it either. Does he have a crate? Might be an idea to give him his chews in there and then if he is not ready for it he can tuck it under his bed and be sure the others can't take it.

I wonder why he isn't eating it straight off?

One of my dogs sometimes hides her treats or chews too. It's usually because she's full up & doesn't want it immediately, or because it's not sooo yummy that she has to eat it there & then. She used to then sit & guard the place where she'd hidden the treat, but only from my other dog & the cats, not from people.

However after she'd lived with us for a few months & got used to food/treats aplenty, the guarding part of the behaviour gradually faded ~ but the hiding part is still there

Consequently I find the occasional scraggy piece of rawhide stuffed down the back of the sofa, or, her favourite ~ a dried up piece of bread meant for the birds buried under the duvet

I think her behaviour is more a habit that she can't quite let go of & being a quite thin rescue dog when we first had her, these old habits obviously die out slowly.

I would echo what was said he maybe didnt feel like eating it right then and decided to put it away for safe keeping. Some dogs seem to be horders and some arnt. My Husky is a terrible horder she will only eat the very best tastiest chews right away the rest get buried. She will dig them up when they have had chance to 'ripen' and they have soggy bits of rawhide and greenish looking chews littered everywhere. Her fave choice of burial spot is in my mums pots which gets soil all over the patio and kills her beloved acers. The only way to stop her is to put those little toy windmills in the pots so you can imagine what there garden looks like!

Originally Posted by Razcox

There is a long history of feast or famine, chicken one day, feathers the next for their ancestral wolves, man, and the dogs dependent on him for food through the ages. Dogs have always buried things to save for later. Dogs that frequently hid food may be overfed.

Hi Tasha

I would guess as dogs are naturally scavengers the behaviour is a throwback to their ancestors who never knew when or where their next meal was coming from.

Page 6

Well in the space of 24hrs I have gone from being worried about him not eating and taking him to the vets (nothing wrong with him, just me being over anxious

I couldn't believe it! He is sometimes a really puppy pain in the butt, but at the moment I love him to bits

That's brilliant, Diana. Well done, Bobby! Whoop whoop!

Well done Bobby!!

Oh well done, that was very good. Especially with all those distractions

I know!

Now.. what is the secret to get him to stop chewing my shoes, eating my plants, and demolishing any letters he gets his paws on?

That is fab - keep it up!! As for the chewing - there is a magic seceret

Just keep them out of his way and give him things he can chew

I think he has every chew toy known to man and nine times out of ten he studiously ignores them and dives for the things he knows he shouldn't touch!

Just tonight I have been playing 'fetch' with him. I threw one of his chew toys, he went to fetch it, and came back with the rug in his teeth instead

All along the back of the settee now are things that I have put up there out of the way of the dreaded teeth

I hope he doesn't learn to jump on the furniture before he grows out of the chewing phase

Still love him though

I think you just need to skip to the bit in the training manual where it shows you how to train them to only chew up bills and not other letters and you will have the perfect dog!

Page 7

Am considering booking a consultation with Carrie Evans for Bessie's separation anxiety and just wondered if anyone in has used her. There aren't many behaviourists in this area so have little choice.

I dont know this person, but where in the T&W area are you?

I'm in North Shields

Originally Posted by cardaph

I'm in North Shields

Thanks for the offer will see what happens

Have you tried Brian Sleightholme from Hillheads Dog Club, he runs classes at Whitley Bay Ice rink and also does 1 to 1 stuff as well.

Originally Posted by BigBearsRule

Originally Posted by cardaph

Am considering booking a consultation with Carrie Evans for Bessie's separation anxiety and just wondered if anyone in has used her. There aren't many behaviourists in this area so have little choice.

http://www.apbc.org.uk/help/regions/area/23

x

The guy in Carlisle I had looked at his website but think we may be too far away for him to travel.

Page 8

Hi all, Sorry I haven't been around for a few months, have had some personal stuff going on that unfortunately has meant me not being online hardly ever. I'm looking for some advice for a friend please. She has a five year old red setter that has started attacking black dogs & is stuck with what to do about it, she's very upset & is even thinking about having him put to sleep as the most recent case was a labrador he attacked & the owner said she needs to control him & called him a dangerous dog that she cannot control. She presently has two setters & has always had setters. He is the first setter to behave this way & she's at her wits end at what to do. He's a strong dog so she cannot walk him purely on lead as he's too strong for her. She's tried the extendable leads, but he's broken them every time as he's too strong when he runs. Her other setter is seven but has a disease that makes her an old dog before her time, so walks are a struggle & she finds it hard to breathe. This is a problem due to the time it takes her to run to the dog as he doesn't listen when he has his sights set on another dog with the bitch with her on her lead.

She paid a lot of money for a lady to go to the house to help, but the lady said it was all about dominance & he needed to learn he was bottom of the pack, she told her to make sure he's fed last of all. This though did nothing to help the problem of him attacking black dogs when on walks & she felt it had been a total waste of money. She has bought him a muzzle now for when they are out so even though he will run at the dogs he cannot hurt them as he's muzzled. She's very upset as she loves her boy dearly, but doesn't know where to turn or what to do about his behaviour. Can anyone offer any advice or ideas at what else she can try as she is very worried it cannot be stopped & her only option is going to be to put her boy to sleep. Thankyou all in advance.

My advice would be fairly obvious of dont let him offlead, so in order to do that bearing in mind what you have said with regards to his strength etc, she needs to get him on some sort of head halter and get him walking by her side, once that is established, then she could start trying to walk him with a black dog and trying to desensitize him to them. Thats my advice, he is dangerous and out of control currently if she is allowing him offlead and to be honest even if muzzled if she isnt with him and he is harassing other black dogs then its hardly fair on other dog owners.

HTH

Why is this dog still offlead?! If he came running at mine, muzzle or no muzzle she would get a mouthful. She is damaging the disposition of other dogs by being so irresponsible

Maybe she could let him off in enclosed spaces and play ball? Try him at agility, or jog with him?

Thanks for the replies, I will let her know the advice so she can try all of these things. She wants to train him & stop this problem, she loves him dearly & will try anything. I told her I will post the problem on some forums & let her know the advice. As said in original post she paid a trainer person to come to the house & help, but all she said was to let him know he's bottom of the pack. This doesn't help with the problem & I said she clearly didn't know how to help & instead of being honest & saying she didn't know she went the dominance route instead. I'm trying to find out as much info as possible to help her as he's a beautiful dog & we really need to stop this behaviour.

I'm sorry she got a naff trainer in

He does sound like he is taking her for a ride on her walks, so maybe she does need to 'assert some sort of authority' over him, but not in the way the trainer suggested. Instead maybe with treats, positive praise when he's doing well or doesn't react to a black dog and maybe a bit of general training, sit etc whilst out on his walks might help him to focus more on her.

Gobsmacked to read that you friend is considering having the dog put to sleep over this! Two obvious replies spring to mind here! Keep the dog leashed! (no need for a muzzle in my view) and persavere with the problem! I have a feeling that maybe the setter has attacked a black dog once, and nt your friend is worried that it is going to attack all black dogs! the dog could well be picking up on her nervousness! How is the dog when walked by others! Also#! strange but true, So dogs do show agression towards blaqck dogs, the reason they say is because they cannot read the eyes. Remain confident, keep walking and teach us the leave command! And as for considering pts! there is no genuine reaon to do such a thing imo!

DT

So sorry she got shuch a rubbish trainer!! What area is she in?? Someone on here is bound to know a good trainer in the area I agree totaly get him under control on the lead If its a new thing attacking other dogs then a trip to the vets to make sure there is no reason is a good idea, her insurance may even cover some training. A training class is a great idea too

Hope she gets some help soon.

Originally Posted by Double Trouble

To start with, I would walk the dog on a Halti or similar to make it easier to control. And throw the extending lead in the bin because it gives you no control at all. I would walk the dog separately, give a couple or three very short walks a day, concentrating on training heelwork and response. The object being that the dog at present seems to be doing what it wants, so your friend needs to go back to basics. In the house, your friend could work on recall and manners. Every time the dog is fed or given a treat is a great opportunity to practice recall. In the house there are many opportunities to teach or practice sit, down etc. Every good response to a command should be rewarded - even if only with a pat or praise. I would also sign up for a dog training club (phone forst to explain the problem) so your friend can practice controlling him round other dogs. This seems like a lot of work - but it is not going to be long before your friend will see results.

Good luck, and well done for helping.

She paid a lot of money for a lady to go to the house to help, but the lady said it was all about dominance & he needed to learn he was bottom of the pack, she told her to make sure he's fed last of all.

If your friend says the dog is too strong to have on a lead the last thing she needs is an extendable lead, they offer no control at all . A good harness may help give better control . I would only let the dog off the lead where I could be sure there would not be any black dog.

A good behaviourist may be able to change the behaviour but beware of people like the trainer you mention and go for someone belonging to a well respected organisation like the APBC .

http://www.apbc.org.uk/

Page 9

Anyone tried any of their remedies? Just wondering, there are a few threads re rescue remedies at the moment and thought that a few reviews of Dorwest might be useful too. I am interested in the ones for anxiety/fear etc

I haven't tried them but my cousin recommended them. One of her dogs was really nervous and it got worse when the other dog died so my cousin uses Dorwest herbs and swears by them.

There are so many different things on offer it's difficult to decide which ones to try

Originally Posted by 1cutedog

Yes I swear by thier skullcap and valerian tablets and drops for firework phobias.
Shady would try to throw herself through the patio windows in panic to escape the noise, with them she is much calmer and although will pace a bit she does eventually settle.

Originally Posted by madmare

Page 10

The Dogs Trust have released a number of training videos, take a look as they seem pretty good

They are great, aren't they? Short, easy to follow and ideal for novice dog owners or folk who haven't trained a dog for a while. I understand that there are more to come.

It's great that people can see how easy it is to teach a dog basic skills using positive, reward based, training methods.

Thank you Azz

I've seen these before and they are very good indeed!

A great resource

x

I found the Dogs Trust very strange lately. Dog expert and a wealth of knowledge, John Rogerson recently ran a course at one of their shelters. It was a week long course and obviously has to be paid for by us delegates. Every employee of the Dogs Trust had a free invite.

Not one turned up! What a waste!

Page 11

Our miniature poodle, Boo, is 6 months old. He is going to be castrated this Thursday. We also have a 4 year old cross breed dog who is pretty well behaved.

Recently we have noticed that Boo works out what we want him to do (e.g. go into the kitchen) and does precisely the opposite. It is generally playful behaviour inviting us to chase him etc. but the only way we can get him to do anything is by giving the older dog a biscuit and loudly proclaiming what a clever boy he is. At this point Boo comes skidding

Margaret

I think it is normal puppy behaviour. You say that it is playful and that is exactly what he is being. Nice use of positive reinforcement though. Rewarding the good behaviour of the obedient dog is a smart move! I'm not sure castration will effect that behaviour. Most research I have read stated that castration mainly stops dogs being attacked by other males and may stop the dog from wondering. In practice I have noticed castration had a big impact in stopping an older dog from marking in the house. But for a puppy he is simply practicing being an older dog. Cocking a leg is a sign of sexual maturity. But that maybe a separate issue than him being mischievous.

I'll be interested in other replies on this subject.

Originally Posted by TangoCharlie

I'll be interested in other replies on this subject.

He has never tried to hump anything - but TBH I think it is more to do with personality that hormones as a couple of dogs in the street were humping before they were 8 weeks old - and after neutering still hump, and Mia (bitch) is an excited humper too)

Blu does this and I think it's just silly puppy behaviour. I do find it funny but if I'm in a hurry it gets anoying. Blu isn't getting snipped until he is finished being shown so I guess by then he will be too old for it to help behaviour wise.

Can I ask where you got your poodle from? It's just I see you are from Scotland. One of Blu's brothers lives over your way but he is 1 not 6 months

Hi there Thanks for the replies. We got Boo from a breeder near Alexandria on the West Coast. He isn't show quality but we wanted him for a pet. Father a chocolate poodle and mother black so he is an interesting shade of black - almost auburn in some lights!

We are having him castrated not for behavioural reasons but because we waited with the older dog and he had problems with other males being aggressive to him. Since the op there have been no problems at all but it took him longer to recover because, basically, his testicles were huge!

We're ignoring the behaviour and saying 'good boy' when he stops. Here's hoping!

Page 12

Hi all Just wondering about using this with Mya, had an awful incident at lunch time, she nearly got killed from being spooked by something and dragging me into the road. She was on the inside too, Fred was in my other hand next to road, when something spooks her she totally freaks. It's really shook me up. I'm calling a behaviourist but wondered if taking something like this might help along with the behaviourists advice. I'll be putting her in car from now on and driving to places as I'm so nervous. I think she's sprained my arm too.

Can you believe she got spooked over a Mrs Henry hoover in someones drive, it wasn't even turned on, it was just in the drive

Tracy xx

We were using it 2 years ago with the very difficult puppy we had. I didn't think I saw as much difference as my wife, the young lady showing the puppy at 4-H, and our mentor from the dog guide school, who had suggested it, did. Unlike some other untested things, it does have enough history to likely be safe. May be worth a try.

ive used it myself before getting on a reputedly 'difficult' horse that hadnt been ridden for 2 years, am not a nervous rider but had built up some 'anticpation' of getting fired into floor

might be worth a try for both of you! for humans it says 4 drops as oftenas you need it so i generally will have a good squirt

Yes, people. Sometimes I see questions where I think the real solution is for the dog owner to take some. Stressed owners transfer their stress to their dogs.

Originally Posted by Labman

we have used it before on the dogs, but to be honest i didnt see much difference, i used it once on my JRT on fireworks night and she was just as bad, the only thing that calmed her down was a bone that she munched on for hours and for us to ignore her, 3years later and she isnt bothered about the fireworks

Originally Posted by Fred&Mya'smum

We have to try to socialise and habituate our dogs to as many things as possible when they are puppies, but it is impossible to cover everything (it wouldn't occur to me to get her used to vaccuum cleaners sitting on drives, either

Good luck

You could also try CSJ Calm Down herbs which would be given daily - they are specifically designed to help dogs with nervous tendencies. While we''ve not used that specific herbs the other CSJ ones we have are great and our friend used this for her Staffie...

No yet, mine only arrived this morning but I will be trying them soon.

Mine are spring water based first thing I checked as on the other thread someone mentioned about them being grape brandy based.

Originally Posted by Lynn

Mine are spring water based first thing I checked as on the other thread someone mentioned about them being grape brandy based.

Originally Posted by Tillymint

Page 13

Hi all, looking for any useful advice on my two cockapoo puppies please. We got Bella in January and she's now 7 months. She's exceptionally easy going, well behaved and loveable. We decided to get her a companion, someone to play with and have all the fun that she can't really have with us. So, we brought home Teddy yesterday. He's 8 weeks, tiny little thing, full of character. I think Bella is getting used to not being the only dog in the house now and if I am interpreting their play fighting which turns into real fighting correctly, they are working out who will be the top dog. My questions are: 1. How far do you let the play/fighting go, before you interfere? 2. They will be left alone for 4 hours tomorrow and we are planning to keep them separate using childgates. Will this encourage any animosity between them when they are brought back together? 3. How long does it take for the working out of who is top to take place? Or if you think that's not what's going on, please let me have any other ideas. 4. Bella is a real slow eater while Teddy scoffs everything down in 30 secs. So far, we have fed them together and then when he finishes, he tries to get her food too which we stop him from doing. Should we feed them separately and which one first? I am sorry for the numerous questions, just a tad worried about my pups and whether I was right to bring Teddy home.

Many thanks x

Originally Posted by Bellasmummy

Many thanks x

Nice to hear of another cockerpoo person

Good Luck

Originally Posted by Bellasmummy

Many thanks x

You will need to keep a very close eye on your bitch as your dog puppy will be capable of mating her & producing a litter as soo as he is entire & if she comes in season & you miss the start you could end up having a puppy in whelp

To be honest you have to do what works for you but this is what I do My questions are: 1. How far do you let the play/fighting go, before you interfere?

I teach them to stop on command, so randomly when they are playing I will interrupt them just to interrupt them and get them to do something else. I also put the pup in a crate for rest whether they think they need it or not. Pups need rest and then you can have some one to one with your older dog, practicing her commands and let the pup watch if they're still awake, they seem to suck it up like a sponge.

No they should be fine, I crate my pups in with the other dogs in the utility so they can interact through the bars and stil be safe from harm.

The pup is a bit young yet and will be getting away with things that as he gets older will most likely not be tolerated, he has puppy license for a while yet and will no doubt try to push his luck a bit.

I always feed all mine together but don't allow them to nick each others, teach him to leave it she has every right to eat in peace. The earlier you start his training the better.

Originally Posted by montysmum

Nice to hear of another cockerpoo person

Good Luck

Thanks again

Originally Posted by JoedeeUK

You will need to keep a very close eye on your bitch as your dog puppy will be capable of mating her & producing a litter as soo as he is entire & if she comes in season & you miss the start you could end up having a puppy in whelp

Thanks again for your post.

Originally Posted by Trouble

I teach them to stop on command, so randomly when they are playing I will interrupt them just to interrupt them and get them to do something else. I also put the pup in a crate for rest whether they think they need it or not. Pups need rest and then you can have some one to one with your older dog, practicing her commands and let the pup watch if they're still awake, they seem to suck it up like a sponge.

No they should be fine, I crate my pups in with the other dogs in the utility so they can interact through the bars and stil be safe from harm.

The pup is a bit young yet and will be getting away with things that as he gets older will most likely not be tolerated, he has puppy license for a while yet and will no doubt try to push his luck a bit.

I always feed all mine together but don't allow them to nick each others, teach him to leave it she has every right to eat in peace. The earlier you start his training the better.

Thanks again

We have had very good luck mixing puppies of different ages. Sometimes we do need to step in and settle the older one if it gets too rough, but usually they catch on to how much the baby can take very quickly. What I watch for is the little one retreating and not coming back for more. At that time, you need to separate them. Any time I leave a puppy unattended, it is in a crate. I have never seen any problems when I come home and let them out. Not even when Jag came into my care at 15 months and had not been crated before. He did very well with the 3 month old male we had at the time.

My experience does need to be looked at as being heavily Labs which are a bunch of big ruffians. And what I have seen of Shepherds, they are worse. Smaller dogs may not do quite as well.

Originally Posted by JoedeeUK

You will need to keep a very close eye on your bitch as your dog puppy will be capable of mating her & producing a litter as soo as he is entire & if she comes in season & you miss the start you could end up having a puppy in whelp

Dee

WE had 2 dogs within 6 months of eachother as well ,from the same reputable breeder no questions asked

Page 14

Coprophagia at sunrise. Almost sounds romantic doesn't it? I know poo eating is self rewarding and obviously self generated but it it a tough one to crack! I have a 18 week old puppy and its a hang-up he's always had which the breeder told me he had. He was crated for long periods with the breeder. Wegot the puppy and he used to be crated and in a play pen with an open crate. Previously he has messed in his crate and his pen and also messed and eaten in his pen. Lately it seemed to have stopped and he as had the run of the area down-stairs. He has always woken at about 5ish and when in the pen whimpered constantly which I ignored for half an hour and let him out in the garden and he defected. Occasionally he did defecate and eat. Now its very quiet. For the last three mornings he has silently urinated and defecated and eaten his own waste. This morning I caught him munching and I calmly let him into the garden and cleared it up. How can I deal with it now? My options seem to be... Crate him overnight. He will whimper and cry and my worst case scenario is that he defecates and makes a mess of himself and the inside of the crate. Feed him later. I currently give him his last meal at 6pm. He maybe hungry. But by feeding him later am I making it more likely he will want to defecate at 5am or before? Add a supplement to his diet. Pineapple, spinach? Do you know anything that works? However, it may stop him eating it but will it stop him producing it? Get up before him. Maybe get up at 4-50am and let him out. But that may create a pattern. Any ideas anyone. It's tricky!

Thanks.

What time does your pup get put in the crate at night and what is the 'bedtime' ritual? Do you notice when he last had a poo before bedtime?

Originally Posted by Hali

I'm thinking, can hunger cause this situation?

I would just try and get out of bed before he needs to go and let him out then get back into bed. I think sometimes it can be habbit. One of my dogs has gone through stages of doing it.

Recently he started it again he is 13 and getting on now not sure why he started doing it but I sarted to get up at 4am and take him out then go back to bed it broke the cycle and he stopped now I get up a 6am.

Originally Posted by TangoCharlie

I'm thinking, can hunger cause this situation?

Perhaps a short evening session of play/training might kill two birds with one stone? If you train with treats, it might stop him being so hungry in the morning and working his brain in the evening might encourage him to sleep longer the next morning? (of course I appreciate that you might not want to get into this kind of routine but its worth considering).

Ben was a poo eater - lovely isnt it I tried pineapple, if I rem it stopped him eating his poo - but even now he likes the odd munch on someone elses - thankfully his leave it is good Couple of things I deff used to give Ben a good play about 10pm before settling down for an hour or two before Bed - so he was nice and tired - and his last meal was after his last walk and he made it tru the night just fine I wouldnt ignore him crying - he has just learnt he cant call you when he NEEDS out - if they cry I just take them out on the lead, no attention, no playing, then quietly praise when they go to the loo then back to bed If you are with him and he goes right away praise and reward him - moving him away from the poo so you can clear it up (and dont worry about him seeing you clear it up - thats just a sill dom rule) How about teaching some leave it training and then build up to a 'leave it' around a nice fresh poo (lovely) A good play a couple of hours before bed and a wee bedtime snack get up before you think he is gonna need to go (and every night increase the time by 10 min) and if he crys let him out

Personaly I would crate too

Page 15

My 2 Kita's Keisha, 3 and Zeke, 7 have always been together, ever since Keisha was a pup she has never been alone in the house when we're out without Zeke. I know that is terrible, but we've had no reason to seperate one from the other alone in the house, and I always think that dogs will live forever. Zeke can be left alone, he was an only dog for 6 months before we got keisha. But Keisha - never. We plan to start seperating them this week, slowly and only a couple of short periods a week to start with - Zeke has cancer and is going for weekly Chemo treatments for many months, and also the inevitable, he can't be cured of this awful disease so one day Keisha will become an only dog. I plan to start tomorrow, Zeke has a short vets visit to get his stitches out. The vets is local so I'm thinking 30 minutes max.

TIPS!!! Help! Keisha will go mad

Do I leave her in a section of the house, I'm thinking kitchen, lounge and dining room, no free run incase she goes on a rampage?

p.s the neighbours are on holiday so noise isn't an issue!

Hi Lucie

My dog when small had SA he has never been left alone always had my other two dogs if he was shut in another room he would rip the floor up the get to them. A few weeks ago I had to take my children out for the day and the two other dogs had got the a bag of food they shouldn't of had and had very bad diarrhea it was a sunny day so I made a bed for them in the shed and left the door open so they had the run of the garden they are 13 so no worry about them trying to runoff. I left the other dog who is three alone in the house left all door open so he didn't think the other were in anther room and try to get in their by digging under the door. I was expecting him the chew something but nothing he was chilled out alseep when we got home. So she may be okay.

I agree with mini, she may be fine. As mini said, keep fuss to a minimum, but do say goodbye quickly, to let her know you're going. Sometimes sneaking out while they're eating then concerns them because they can't find you. Leave her lots to do and keep her sectioned off , I would say in one room only. It may help to draw the curtains so that she can't be upset by anything outside. With regards the radio, this is good for masking other noises and not making the house feel so quiet, however - don't always put it on just before you go out. Have it on while you're in, then leave it on when you go out. If you put the radio on each time you go out, it'll become a cue for you leaving and that alone may worry her.

But seriously, don't panic - she may be fine!

Thanks guys, I left the tele (not something i would do all day but i don't have a radio

she was FINE! I'm so proud of her, she had somehow managed to flip the very heavy rug with the coffee table on it practically upside down

Thanks again xxxx

Originally Posted by akitagirl

she was FINE! I'm so proud of her, she had somehow managed to flip the very heavy rug with the coffee table on it practically upside down

Thanks again xxxx

Try not to stress about leaving her or she may pick up on this and you need to be calm for Zeke too....

I am sorry to hear of your boys illness

Ref seperating them I am glad it was fine today xxx

Page 16

Hi,
As i've mentioned i have a 3 month old labrador...and as early as now i want to traing him sith atleast some of the simple command and obedient training...wwhere would i start??

Finding a good positive training class is the best place - go along and make sure it is all positive - no shoving jerking yelling or punishing

Also there are the Dogs Trust videos posted by Azz further down in this section (my computer playing up so I cant link)

I don't know if you can find good dog training classes in Manila, but if you can, I would suggest that you ask the instructor if you can go along (without your puppy) to observe a class before you think about enrolling. That way you can tell if the classes are taught using positive reinforcement & not using punishment or silly things like how to be a "pack leader". Also you can talk to the other class members & see if they have enjoyed the training classes. If you can't find good training classes then I suggest that you get hold of some good books, videos or reading material, that explain about dog training. There's a good article on this site about clicker training but also have a look around the APBC & APDT web sites for some good articles. I can recommed any of the books on clicker training by Karen Pryor or Pamela Reid, & I'm sure other people can recommend other books.

But there is no substitute for hands on experience

Originally Posted by kimmy.doglover

Just arm yourself with plenty of treats and give him something every time he does anything you ask him to.

Labs are resilient dogs, but do very well with more positive methods. Even if you have good classes available, a book such as Puppy Primer, by Brenda K Skidmore and Patricia B. McConnell, Ph.D. or Beginning Family Dog Training, by Patricia B. McConnell, Ph.D. would be a big help.

Follow the same methods as any other dog. At 3 months, you still need to keep the training sessions short. He should quickly have the basics down with 5-10 minutes several times a day.

Start with sit, wait and recall. I find these to be the three most useful commands a dog can know. A good trainer or class will help immensely, as has been said before, but if not, most labs are food obsessed (try cheese or dried liver treats) and very willing to work.

There are many good tutorials on youtube too, if you cannot find a training class.

Page 17

Tilly the Westie is now ten months old and is such a delightful little dog we cannot resist getting another Westie puppy from the same breeder. The question is should we get a boy or a girl? Tilly has had her first season and we intend to have her spayed so getting a boy wouldn't be a problem. But people have said that despites Tilly's wonderful temperament she is the alpha bitch and won't take kindly to another girl. What do others think?

Thanks

Robin

Opposites tend to get on getter, so I would go for a dog this time.
Good luck!